bass driver in Hiraga style A-5

**leifchristensen** · March 4th, 2010, 04:17 PM

hello
It?my lucky year!
got hold of 3 828s from Norwegian film institute today with 416-8Bs in them and the 501-8a networks
on top was JBL 2445js and 2446js in 2385 biradial horns.
in the latest few months my actual objective was to put together something like a Hiraga-based A-5 version.
do I need the exact same drivers as mentioned in the Sound practices article or
will the 416-8B do the job as nice as the 515G
is there any other equally good top combo as the 288C/1005B
I have 2" Selenium horns and 1,4" Mantarays
I have 299-16A / 2445J and 2446J
plus a bunch of 1" Altec drivers and horns
"Are there alternate roads to Rome"?
best
Leif
Norway

GM · March 4th, 2010, 07:43 PM

Pano or others will have to comment on JH's system, but from a purely technical POV the 416 won't sound as 'fast'/'clear' as the 515 and except for the 203, none of the big multi-cells sound all that good to me run full range in a typical HIFI/HT app since you can't sit far enough away, though if the outer cells are plugged with foam just enough to roll off their HF it's OK.

Me, I'd rather have a 299 loaded Mantaray with whatever polar response best fits the room/listening distance and all digitally bi-amped. Oh yeah, if not built into corners, then a modular false wall to encapsulate the speakers same is done behind a cinema screen these days.

GM

**Panomaniac** · March 4th, 2010, 10:39 PM

Well since I helped Mr. Hiraga build those A5s and used them for awhile, I guess I'm qualified to comment. (see my avatar)

I loved the 1505 horns, even at modest distances. They were always driven with the Westrex version of the 288. Looked a lot like the old W.E. drivers, handle and all.

As I remember, there were a number of different 15s in there. 416, some JBL recones and I think now Westrex frames with EV cones. Hiraga was forever mixing and matching frames and cones. Can't remember what worked best. The big Onken W sounded great with 515. My guess is that the 416 will do best overall in the A5. But as GM says, maybe not as "fast" sounding as the 515.

As for horns, I would think your 1005B would be ideal. Coupled with a 288 it's going to be hard to beat them. It's just getting the crossover right that will be the real work. It will make soooo much more difference than choosing among similar Altec drivers and horns.

That's my 2 centimes.

**leifchristensen** · March 5th, 2010, 04:01 AM

thank you very much mr.P
your 2 centimes are worth a lot,despite French transition to Euro
? was afraid I had to continue to try and find some tarfilled 1005Bs to ease my restlessness.
Anyway; when I opened the 828s I noticed there was an additional small network.I think it was 2 caps and 3 white resistor "coffins" between the N501-8A and the 416-8Bs..some sort of eq maybe?
I?ll take a closer look this week-end.
Until then
best
Leif

GM · March 6th, 2010, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by Panomaniac

As for horns, I would think your 1005B would be ideal. Coupled with a 288 it's going to be hard to beat them. It's just getting the crossover right that will be the real work.

?? I thought JH's XOs for the A5/1005 posted in Soundpractices was the 'Hot Ticket'.

GM

**Panomaniac** · March 7th, 2010, 01:00 AM

I have not seen that crossover, nor have I heard it. But I'm sure it would be a great starting point. JH knows his crossovers.

Also don't know what 15" driver it is meant for.

Is there a schematic and any info on it?

**mikebond** · March 8th, 2010, 12:33 PM

This is what you are looking for:
http://web.archive.org/web/200502060...s/HiragaA5.pdf

**Panomaniac** · March 8th, 2010, 03:44 PM

Thanks Mike! I guess I have seen that before. I'll save it this time. =)

Basically that is a 500Hz LP (Butterworth) and a 600Hz HP (Bessel) with the EQ section on the horn. Makes sense.
Otherwise stated: Second order, centered on 550Hz with 20% spread. Horn EQ via HP shelving above ~5K.

A 10 element filter, not bad.

**Panomaniac** · March 9th, 2010, 12:28 AM

I had a stab at this crossover today. I did it active and digital, but the same slopes and EQ as the passive version. Works very well! In fact it may be the best sounding x-over I've tried so far. That tricky old Mr. H knows a few things.

Now that said, I've have 300Hz horns and the 291 driver, but it still worked well with a little digital delay to account for the longer horn. And I use tweeters to fill in the top - but so does Hiraga. They just aren't shown in the the published crossovers.

I'd say that this 500Hz LP / 600Hz HP with EQ will work very well. Especially well with the 500Hz horns and the 288 driver.